‘Work hard, play hard’. That’s the motto of Popay co-founder Werner Willems. What’s his ambition? To teach people. And at the same time to continue learning from others every day. On top of that, he also knows how to translate even the most complex issues into simple terms. This is how he empowers both his employees and his customers. While Werner and Bert built the bridge between HR and IT 18 years ago, more recently they and their team have been working together towards making that bridge even stronger and wider worldwide.  

We’re curious about the man behind Popay. Who are you and where are you from?
“I studied computer science, so I have a technical background. I joined HRIT almost 40 years ago now, where I started working on applications for HR and payroll. I either worked on my own or for companies. That is until I met Bert at a mutual client and we realised we were doing the same things. We lacked customised software and comprehensive support for our customers and decided to start up with those activities together. This allowed us to expand our products and services, operate in a more structured way, and start working with a team of employees and a variety of entities. And in the meantime we’ve evolved into a global and international collaboration.”

That’s quite a nice development! Was that always your ambition?
“No, it wasn’t always my ambition. It just happened that way. We used to work reactively. Whenever a customer had a problem, we would figure out how to solve it then and there. Now we develop solutions proactively. Because we work with a larger team, we have more leverage. And we need that because the HR and payroll landscape is much more complex than it used to be. There are more and more regulations and society is just different. In the past, the administrative side was more important. Today, the focus is more on people. So we’ve changed from a tech company into providing people-oriented support.”

Before, you would do everything yourself, now you have a team. What is your typical work day like?
“I’m still hands-on when it comes to working on projects and solutions every day. Having direct contact with our customers is also important to me. But my aim is to keep handing that over to the next generation more and more. There are several reasons for that. Everything is changing very rapidly. Although I could invest time and energy in keeping pace with that change, I think my added value is in organisation and coordination, through contacting clients and formulating strategic solutions. Looking at the direction we’re headed in and making sure that there is effective collaboration in and between the teams, rather than creating the technology. Thanks to my many years of experience, this is where my added value primarily lies.”

That’s a great goal to aspire to. Can you tell us about how you empower your customers?
“I’m in contact with the technical staff in companies and sometimes with HR professionals. I work with them to try and relieve the pressure felt by an organisation’s HR and IT teams by eliminating as many issues or day-to-day concerns as possible so they can focus on their jobs. This includes all the red tape, planning, strategies, processes, contracts, applications, upgrades, security… I hover between HR and IT and bridge that gap. I absorb all the issues from IT and HR and try to smooth them out all in one go.”

Why do you think that’s so important in this day and age?
“It’s all over the newspapers: everyone is looking for talent. And once they find it, they’re also keen to keep it. When people are directly confronted with complicated administrative or tedious processes, they start looking for something else. That’s what we’re trying to solve. And we’re doing that together with people who have a lot of experience and have seen inside a lot of organisations. They can carry the lessons they’ve learnt with them to our customers. In other words, we’re the ones who listen, understand HR processes in corporate environments, and can create solutions for organisations. Companies don’t always have that in-house.”

That’s great! And how do you empower your own people?
“I think that’s a very important part of my job. By listening to them and contributing ideas, my aim is to offer everyone help and support. When I started working myself, I was dealing with people who were experts in their fields, but unfortunately also stuck in their ways and habits. I’m absolutely striving not to be that. I hope my colleagues don’t see me as some sort of pedantic old man, but rather as a positive teacher who is himself open to learning and who, most importantly, wants to help bring others forward through advice and action.”

So what defines you in this, in your work?
“One of my ambitions has always been to teach people. I thoroughly enjoy that. Over the years, I’ve noticed that I’ve had an impact on others. Although they may not always realise it or express it themselves, I can see it and to me, that’s a really nice compliment. Also, a client once said to me that I have a way of explaining complex problems very clearly. If I understand the complexity, I can also make it more understandable and transparent to others.” 

That’s a nice skill! When do you feel a sense of satisfaction?
“Not very quickly. But I’ve learnt to feel that way once I’ve gotten 80% of the solution. It’s particularly satisfying when the people I’ve worked with feel that I’ve brought added value. However big or small that may be. There could also be added value in terms of project efficiency, unravelling problems or sharing knowledge.”

What is something you really can’t stand about your work?
“Sometimes I come across people who are very much focused on the problem rather than the solution. I then try to turn that around, but it’s often a tough sell. I also very rarely feel that an extremely aggressive or assertive approach is a positive quality. I myself always do everything with the best of intentions, so it’s hard for me to tolerate when people tackle the person rather than the situation.”

Understandable. Last question: where do your ambitions lie, what are you still striving for?
“I’m happy with what I’m doing and just want to carry on doing what I’m doing now. Of course we have goals in mind, we want to speed things up, grow, and do our jobs even better. I think the drive to do what we do has developed quite a bit. All of our employees are on board with that, which is a nice feeling. In the process, I try to strike a good work-life balance. I respect those boundaries for myself as well as for others. Employees also have a lot of freedom in this respect with us. It was for good reason that a few colleagues once gave me a sign that said ‘Work hard, play hard’. That’s on my desk. We work hard together, but we also celebrate our successes and enjoy get-togethers, and sometimes organise activities or even a holiday. And if a work issue happens to come up during one of our outings, I’m sure the team will make every effort to find a solution. I have complete trust in that. It’s what we’re made of…”